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	<title>Comments on: LATE FEES &#8211; PART 1: WHAT AMOUNT CAN YOU CHARGE?</title>
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	<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/</link>
	<description>Tristan&#039;s Landlord - Tenant Law Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 19:37:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1908</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1908</guid>
		<description>Simon - not a problem.  I understand from a practical standpoint that working with the tenant that pays late is preferred by many landlords for the reasons that you mention (as well as others).  However, as an attorney, I often see the negative side of doing that and that is why I caution you about continuing to let a tenant live rent free for more than 1 month.  If your tenant were ever to file bankruptcy for instance you would never see those lost rents.  If your tenant skips out the same would be true.

I am happy to know that your tenant eventually pays up and you are made whole. albeit late.  I would just hate to see you &quot;work with&quot; your tenant for so long and then get screwed.  I unfortunately see that happen to well-meaning landlords quite often.

Take caree and good luck.

T</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon &#8211; not a problem.  I understand from a practical standpoint that working with the tenant that pays late is preferred by many landlords for the reasons that you mention (as well as others).  However, as an attorney, I often see the negative side of doing that and that is why I caution you about continuing to let a tenant live rent free for more than 1 month.  If your tenant were ever to file bankruptcy for instance you would never see those lost rents.  If your tenant skips out the same would be true.</p>
<p>I am happy to know that your tenant eventually pays up and you are made whole. albeit late.  I would just hate to see you &#8220;work with&#8221; your tenant for so long and then get screwed.  I unfortunately see that happen to well-meaning landlords quite often.</p>
<p>Take caree and good luck.</p>
<p>T</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1903</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1903</guid>
		<description>Hi Tristan.  
This is Simon. I am very sorry for the name confusion.  Thanks for your comments and understand it. 

My thought process was that it is more expensive to evict a tenant than receiving the rent 3 months late. Nowadays, it is very time-consuming and cost a lot of money just to clean-up and prep for the next new tenant. 

The tenant is nice, only late around three times a year and always pays up at the end. I just want to add a cost for each month she is late. With the extra $50 late-fee every 30 days, I am hoping she would pay up in 2 months rather than 3 months.

I understand your point that the courts often will not allow a landlord to charge a late fee above $50 in a residential tenancy. I will try to serve eviction notice if it passes one month late.

Thanks for your opinion and time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tristan.<br />
This is Simon. I am very sorry for the name confusion.  Thanks for your comments and understand it. </p>
<p>My thought process was that it is more expensive to evict a tenant than receiving the rent 3 months late. Nowadays, it is very time-consuming and cost a lot of money just to clean-up and prep for the next new tenant. </p>
<p>The tenant is nice, only late around three times a year and always pays up at the end. I just want to add a cost for each month she is late. With the extra $50 late-fee every 30 days, I am hoping she would pay up in 2 months rather than 3 months.</p>
<p>I understand your point that the courts often will not allow a landlord to charge a late fee above $50 in a residential tenancy. I will try to serve eviction notice if it passes one month late.</p>
<p>Thanks for your opinion and time</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1892</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1892</guid>
		<description>Simon -- My name is Tristan not Bob : )

As I mentioned in my blog post on late fees -- there is no statute, regulation or case that limits the amount that a landlord can charge for a late fee.  Having said that however, the courts often will not allow a landlord to charge a late fee above $50 in a residential tenancy.  

There is no requirement that the grace period be 10 days.  There is not a requirement that there even be a grace period.  If I give one - it is no more than 3 days.

The court only gets involved if the matter is taken to court -- either by the landlord trying to get a judgment that includes late fees or the tenant arguing that the late fees are excessive (most likely in the context of withholding a late fee from a security deposit).

So there is no clear cut answer.

I will point out however that if you want to increase your late fee in order to get the tenant to pay rent on time -- serving them with a 5 day notice for not paying rent timely and then evicting them will achieve the same results and is pretty stright forward.

If a tenant is more than 1 month late in paying rent you should be evicting them - not trying to increase the late fee, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon &#8212; My name is Tristan not Bob : )</p>
<p>As I mentioned in my blog post on late fees &#8212; there is no statute, regulation or case that limits the amount that a landlord can charge for a late fee.  Having said that however, the courts often will not allow a landlord to charge a late fee above $50 in a residential tenancy.  </p>
<p>There is no requirement that the grace period be 10 days.  There is not a requirement that there even be a grace period.  If I give one &#8211; it is no more than 3 days.</p>
<p>The court only gets involved if the matter is taken to court &#8212; either by the landlord trying to get a judgment that includes late fees or the tenant arguing that the late fees are excessive (most likely in the context of withholding a late fee from a security deposit).</p>
<p>So there is no clear cut answer.</p>
<p>I will point out however that if you want to increase your late fee in order to get the tenant to pay rent on time &#8212; serving them with a 5 day notice for not paying rent timely and then evicting them will achieve the same results and is pretty stright forward.</p>
<p>If a tenant is more than 1 month late in paying rent you should be evicting them &#8211; not trying to increase the late fee, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1889</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1889</guid>
		<description>Hi Bob: I have a tenant who is 2 or 3 months late for a given rent. Can I charge $50 for every 30 day she is late or am I limited to the one-time $50 late fee after 10-day grace period regardless if she is more than 1, 2 or 3 months late?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bob: I have a tenant who is 2 or 3 months late for a given rent. Can I charge $50 for every 30 day she is late or am I limited to the one-time $50 late fee after 10-day grace period regardless if she is more than 1, 2 or 3 months late?</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1867</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1867</guid>
		<description>Bob -- You haven&#039;t found anything becasue there is nothing out there on that issue : )  No statute, regulation or caselaw regulates when a late fee can be charged.  The only law on the issue is that in order to charge a late fee it must be stated what it is and when it will be charged in the rental agreement.

So the choice is yours and the tenant&#039;s -- whatever the both of you agree to.  You do not even have to allow a grace period.

You should be careful re: using language like &quot;postmarked by&quot;  -- I once had a client lose an eviction trial because there was testimony that the tenant did mail the rent by the date listed in the rental agreement even though the landlord never received it.  The judge believed the tenants testimony that he mailed it on day X and indicated that he complied with the contract by doing so and my client (landlord) could not testify that he didn&#039;t mail it.

So you rental agreement should say that rent must be RECEIVED BY X.  Its not relevant when they mailed it -- what matters to the landlord is that he receives it by X.

I personally have rent due on the 1st of the month (it must be received by me by the 1st of the month) and I wil charge a late fee after the 3rd day of the month.  What tenant&#039;s don&#039;t often understand however is that rent is still do on the 1st not the 3rd.  So a landord could serve a 5 day notice on the 2nd day of the month and potentially evict them if they pay by the 3rd.  Tenant&#039;s don&#039;t seem to understand theat even if they pay within the grace period they are still late.  They seem to think that rent is not due until the 3rd.  I&#039;m not a big fan of grace periods - so I have a talk with my tenants about this situation befor ethey move in.

T</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob &#8212; You haven&#8217;t found anything becasue there is nothing out there on that issue : )  No statute, regulation or caselaw regulates when a late fee can be charged.  The only law on the issue is that in order to charge a late fee it must be stated what it is and when it will be charged in the rental agreement.</p>
<p>So the choice is yours and the tenant&#8217;s &#8212; whatever the both of you agree to.  You do not even have to allow a grace period.</p>
<p>You should be careful re: using language like &#8220;postmarked by&#8221;  &#8212; I once had a client lose an eviction trial because there was testimony that the tenant did mail the rent by the date listed in the rental agreement even though the landlord never received it.  The judge believed the tenants testimony that he mailed it on day X and indicated that he complied with the contract by doing so and my client (landlord) could not testify that he didn&#8217;t mail it.</p>
<p>So you rental agreement should say that rent must be RECEIVED BY X.  Its not relevant when they mailed it &#8212; what matters to the landlord is that he receives it by X.</p>
<p>I personally have rent due on the 1st of the month (it must be received by me by the 1st of the month) and I wil charge a late fee after the 3rd day of the month.  What tenant&#8217;s don&#8217;t often understand however is that rent is still do on the 1st not the 3rd.  So a landord could serve a 5 day notice on the 2nd day of the month and potentially evict them if they pay by the 3rd.  Tenant&#8217;s don&#8217;t seem to understand theat even if they pay within the grace period they are still late.  They seem to think that rent is not due until the 3rd.  I&#8217;m not a big fan of grace periods &#8211; so I have a talk with my tenants about this situation befor ethey move in.</p>
<p>T</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Bar</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1864</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Bar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1864</guid>
		<description>I have been looking at the Wi  statutes  and I haven&#039;t found any info regarding when a late fee can be charged. That is on what day is rent considered late,, is it late on the 2ND, 3Rd, or the 5th day? or can I choose what day it is considered late? I had been using this:  Rent must be in hand no later than the 1st or if mailed, post marked no later than the 1st and in hand no later than the 5th day of the month. If they do not comply I charge a late fee of $50 with a NSRP from there security deposit if payment is not made before end of lease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been looking at the Wi  statutes  and I haven&#8217;t found any info regarding when a late fee can be charged. That is on what day is rent considered late,, is it late on the 2ND, 3Rd, or the 5th day? or can I choose what day it is considered late? I had been using this:  Rent must be in hand no later than the 1st or if mailed, post marked no later than the 1st and in hand no later than the 5th day of the month. If they do not comply I charge a late fee of $50 with a NSRP from there security deposit if payment is not made before end of lease.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://petriestocking.com/blog/2009/06/06/late-fees-part-1-what-amount-can-you-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-1262</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan R. Pettit, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://petriestocking.com/blog/?p=8#comment-1262</guid>
		<description>Pamela --- As I mentioned in my blog post there is no statute, regulation or caselaw that limits the maximum late fee that you can charge.  So whether or not $50 is extreme or not would be determined by the court commissioner or judge that would review the issue.  I can tell you that in Milwaukee County you would not be awarded a $50 per day late fee but that doesn&#039;t mean that you shouldn&#039;t use it -- just be prepared that if you go to court you will not be awarded the full amount.  If the amount gets people to pay rent on time -- which is the goal -- then it is a good amount.

I can tell you however, that I have not seen a $50 per day late fee in the residential L-T context before.

T</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela &#8212; As I mentioned in my blog post there is no statute, regulation or caselaw that limits the maximum late fee that you can charge.  So whether or not $50 is extreme or not would be determined by the court commissioner or judge that would review the issue.  I can tell you that in Milwaukee County you would not be awarded a $50 per day late fee but that doesn&#8217;t mean that you shouldn&#8217;t use it &#8212; just be prepared that if you go to court you will not be awarded the full amount.  If the amount gets people to pay rent on time &#8212; which is the goal &#8212; then it is a good amount.</p>
<p>I can tell you however, that I have not seen a $50 per day late fee in the residential L-T context before.</p>
<p>T</p>
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